Battle of Britain (1969) ADDED

[Brent_Reid]

Though not currently noted, most, if not all, releases actually contain English and English HoH subs. The former subs French, German and Polish dialogue only, while the latter obviously subs everything, including English dialogue and all onscreen text - even that already in English!

Title: Battle of Britain
Country: UK
Region: B
Releasing Studio: MGM
Case Type: Keep case
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
Codec: (MVC, AVC MPEG-4, VC-1, MPEG-2) MPEG-2
Picture: (1080p/1080i 60/1080i 50 etc) 1080p
Soundtracks: English DTS-HD MA 5.1, Italian and Spanish DTS 5.1
Subtitles (are they optional?): Yes: English (x2*), Italian (x2*), Spanish (x2*), Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Swedish
Cuts: (and if you know it, precise run time) None (132:10)
Commentaries: None
Extras: None
Notes: Also issued as a steelbook (ASIN B00J4JZU76) and in a ""3 Film Collection" (ASIN B00DSQ81Z4) with "The Great Escape" and "A Bridge too Far"
Easter Eggs: None
Amazon ASIN (UK, French, German, USA releases only): B002COJCVA
Source:*Own copy

I've checked thoroughly and the Italian, Spanish and Scandinavian BDs appear to be identical to the UK, so can also be added.

Title: Battle of Britain
Country: Germany
Region: B
Releasing Studio: MGM
Case Type: Keep case
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
Codec: (MVC, AVC MPEG-4, VC-1, MPEG-2) MPEG-2
Picture: (1080p/1080i 60/1080i 50 etc) 1080p
Soundtracks: English DTS-HD MA 5.1, French and German DTS 5.1
Subtitles (are they optional?): Yes: Dutch, English (x2*), French (x2*), German (x2*)
Cuts: (and if you know it, precise run time) None (132:10)
Commentaries: None
Extras: Trailers: "Rocky Balboa" (2:22), Eragon (1:20) - both 1080p
Notes: Identical to the French BD (ASIN B001G53KKA).
Easter Eggs: None
Amazon ASIN (UK, French, German, USA releases only): B001KR5I90
Source:*Own copy

Add "English (x2*)" to the US BD subs. ASIN: B000WC39RW.

Caps: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=995&d2=994&c=919
Beaver: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRevie ... lu-ray.htm

I see Noor reviewed the US BD; perhaps he can supply its runtime? Also, the subs he's listed don't match what's in the comparison. It's be useful if he could check for additional subs, as at least English and English HoH should be present.

I'll add the German DVDs from OFDb once the above is sorted. I've found all the spec for the Japanese BD, bar its exact runtime. Shall I add that too?

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Subtitles (are they optional?): Yes: English and English HoH, Italian and Italian HoH, Spanish and Spanish HoH, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Swedish

The Spanish and Italian subtitles - so one track subtitles the film for the original English version and the HoH subtitles caption the dub tracks along with captions like [gunfire], [music], etc? I would assume the two respective Spanish and Italian tracks would be one set for translating the English version, and the other for subtitling the foreign language portions for the dub tracks. Which is right?

Subtitles (are they optional?): Yes: Dutch, English and English HoH, French and French HoH, German and German HoH

Same question for the French and German subs here.

I'll add the German DVDs from OFDb once the above is sorted. I've found all the spec for the Japanese BD, bar its exact runtime. Shall I add that too?

Yes please.

I see Noor reviewed the US BD; perhaps he can supply its runtime? Also, the subs he's listed don't match what's in the comparison. It's be useful if he could check for additional subs, as at least English and English HoH should be present.

Fixed the review.

[Brent_Reid]

The BD subs situation is quite complicated across all releases, generating a lot of online complaints, and I've studied it in a lot of depth. Your second description of the subs is nearest, but it's most accurate to describe them as:

• US and UK BDs: English (non-English dialogue and onscreen text) and English (all dialogue and onscreen text).
  French and German BDs: English (non-English dialogue) and English (all dialogue and onscreen text).

No subs, in any language, describe sound effects at all, so it's inaccurate to describe them as HoH/SDH.I've tried to summarise it as succinctly as possible. You may want to add the following as a footnote:

• Subtitles
  Most BDs have faulty English subtitling. The English HoH (for non-English portions) subs translate everything that isn't English dialogue, including all onscreen text - even that already in English! This includes letters, pub signs, place names and the quote and roll of the fallen at the end.
  Only the identical French and German BDs rectify this, translating non-English dialogue only, so are the best choice for English speakers. All French and German subs are configured similarly: correctly.
  In the case of other dual-subbed languages, eg Spanish and Italian, one set translates everything while the second only translates onscreen text.
  All languages with only one set of subs describe all dialogue and onscreen text.

I've searched extensively and can only identify three different BDs worldwide. The Japanese disc is another matter again, so unless one of us gets a copy in hand, it's perhaps better not to add it after all!

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Could you update the subtitles in the main post then?

[Brent_Reid]

Sure, my descriptions, though accurate, are quite lengthy though. Can you think of a better way to describe them?
I could put "English (x2: see footnote)" or something similar...

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

Removing "HoH" for the subtitles that are not HoH for the start

[Brent_Reid]

Done, and I've rewritten the footnote:

• *Subtitles
  Most BDs have faulty English subtitling. One of the two sets of subs translates everything that isn't English dialogue, including all onscreen text - even that already in English! This includes letters, pub signs, place names and the quote and roll of the fallen at the end.
  Only the identical French and German BDs rectify this, with a set translating non-English dialogue only, so are the best choice for English speakers. All French and German subs are configured similarly: correctly. Therefore, they are:
  - French and German BDs: English (non-English dialogue) and English (all dialogue and onscreen text)
  - All others: English (non-English dialogue and onscreen text) and English (all dialogue and onscreen text)
  In the case of other dual-subbed languages, eg Spanish and Italian, one set translates everything while the second only translates onscreen text.
  All languages with only one set of subs describe all dialogue and onscreen text.

I've removed the DVD info for now; let's clear up the BDs first.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

The back of the UK inlay says "English for the hearing impaired". So this is wrong and only has standard English subtitles?

[Brent_Reid]

Yup. You wouldn't believe how much time I've spent checking this out! Someone just really messed up with these subs. Compare and contrast with a very similar release from the same outfit at the same time: The Longest Day. Multiple languages spoken, yet the many different sets of subs handle them all perfectly. Thankfully, Battle of Britain appears to be a one-off.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

OK. Added and updated.

[Brent_Reid]

Good effort, but the various inline sub descriptions are inconsistent across the different releases, with some appearing to be incomplete and/or inaccurate.

Correcting them is gonna get complicated... Shall I try, using your method?

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

What's inaccurate?

[Brent_Reid]

I've just spent/wasted a couple more hours scrutinising the various different sub and dub tracks of the French/German BD and the UK/etc BD in even more depth. This is getting even more complicated than I thought: for starters, no Polish dialogue is either subbed or dubbed in any language. The same may well apply to the French dialogue too, but it's moot at this point. The four other dual-sub streams are even more f*cked up and inconsistent than the English, and it's honestly pointless trying to describe them. You'd literally need to sit and watch the film in its entirety with every sub combination and a notepad, and then write a long, complicated description for each.

For instance, the French/German BD goes something like this:

• Dutch
  English (French and German dialogue)
  English (all dialogue and signs ["onscreen text" is more accurate than "signs" or "captions" as it covers everything seen in the film])
  French (some French / English / German dialogue [it chops and changes!] and onscreen text)
  French (German [but not English!] dialogue and English onscreen text)
  German (some English / French dialogue [again, it seems to chop and change] and onscreen text)
  German ([apparently] onscreen text only)

But in truth, that's a simplified version of the French and German subs. It's better to just list French/German/Italian/Spanish subs "x2" or similar and leave it at that. What is still certain is that none of the subs can be described as HoH or for the hearing impaired.

We can only be sure of the descriptions for the two sets of English subs; anyone limited to one of the four other dual-subbed languages will have to take pot luck, as they'll be buying those releases anyway.

To reiterate, the English subs are:

• English (French and German dialogue), English (all dialogue and onscreen text)

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

"x2" would be more confusing. Looks like Rick went ahead and updated it.

[Brent_Reid]

"x2" was just a suggestion. That's why I said "or similar". I can't see what he's done, but they're all still wrong.

[James-Masaki_Ryan]

I assume you have the UK disc only. Where is the info of the French/German discs coming from about the missing portions?

[Brent_Reid]

I own the French/German BD and the UK/etc BD. On both my comparison additions above I put "Own copy" and in my last long post I said that I'd just spent ages rechecking both discs. The info is coming via my own eyes and ears on my own equipment. I also own the UK 2-DVD set.

It'd be great if someone else would weigh in to affirm my claims; someone here must own a copy.

[Rick_Curzon]

All I did was add the note to the main track about the score and spaced out the bits with forward slash:

English/French/German/Polish

To

English / French / German / Polish

As I find just it a little bit clearer.

Oh, and added the note to winner's notes about the scores.

That's it, didn't touch anything else.

[Brent_Reid]

Title: Battle of Britain
Country: Germany
Region: B
Releasing Studio: MGM
Case Type: Keep case
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
Anamorphic?: Yes
PAL or NTSC?: PAL
Soundtracks: English/French/German/Polish* or German/French/Polish* Dolby Digital 5.1 surround, German 5.1 DTS surround
Subtitles (are they optional?): Yes (English and German HoH)
Cuts: (and if you know it, precise run time) None (126:54)
Commentaries: Audio commentary with Guy Hamilton, Bernard Williams, Paul Annett and Garth Thomas (w/optional English or German subs)
Extras:
Disc 1:
Feature with Ron Goodwin score in Dolby Digital 5.1
Feature with original Sir William Walton score in Dolby Digital 5.1
Disc 2:
"Battle for the Battle of Britain" documentary (50:24)
"Authenticity in the Air" featurette (22:23)
"A Film for the Few" featurette (20:23)
"Recollections of an RAF Squadron Leader" featurette (9:32)
"Images From the Sky": An animated montage of still photos, with Walton soundtrack (3:54)
Theatrical Trailer (4:36)
8-page booklet
Notes: Disc 2 extras have optional subs: Danish, Dutch, English, Finnish, French, German, Italian, Norwegian, Spanish and Swedish
Easter Eggs: None
Amazon ASIN (UK, French, German, USA releases only): B0001YIE7Q
Source:*OFDb

Also issued in single-disc (ASIN B0009V2986, reissue B001RFGVE6) and steelbook (ASIN B000199LKA) editions.

*These language configurations apply to all releases. In the case of dub tracks, only English and/or German is re-recorded; French and Polish dialogue is unaltered.

[Brent_Reid]

Missing ASINs:
US DVD: B00008PC0Y
US 2-DVD: B000ASDFEK
UK DVD: B000UA9VOQ (disc 1 of the 2-DVD set) - Has English and English HoH subs, and the commentary is also subbed
UK 2-DVD: B0001P1BOI

The DVD comparison footnote says, "but it has the original Mono-track instead." It's also on the US BD, but should be amended to:

• "but has an extra mono track [no hyphen] instead. Mono soundtracks appeared on 35mm prints playing in theaters not equipped for stereo playback."

It was an A-budget film, shot on 70mm with 6-track stereo audio, so that's the original and is reconfigured for a 5.1 array. 35mm prints with a mono soundtrack were also shipped to smaller theatres, as that was all most of them could play at the time. Theoretically, the extra soundtrack could be still described as "original mono alternative" or similar, but we don't know that for sure. It could just be a fold-down of the 5.1 mix, so is best described the way I suggest.

Both US DVDs are "cut". According to numerous reviews, eg here and here, they have an altered transfer with different main titles; a roll of lost German planes, casualties, and deaths cut from the end; substituted music over the final credits; and altered, erroneous composer credits. US VHS, LaserDisc and BD copies have the original, unaltered theatrical version. There are also many complaints about the DVDs' inaccurate English subs, which are different to those on all other DVDs.